Anyone remember when...

[Nicko]

It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.

So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them? I haven't
really thought about this issue since obviously I am such an
luck^h^h^h^h excellent driver and it's been so long since I've been
caug^h^h^h^h subject to a moving violation.

Anyway, the State of Illinois is now reconsidering this practice, as I
read in today's Trib:

http://tinyurl.com/3c8w4s

or

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/transportation/chi-license07mar07,1,3599105.story

passage from the article:

The practice of taking driver's licenses was established in Chicago in
the 1950s and later expanded statewide under the presumption that
holding a license hostage makes accused lawbreakers more likely to pay
their fines or come to court.

Protocols in other states vary widely. In Michigan, officers take
licenses of out-of-state drivers only. In Mississippi, police can take
driver's licenses of in-state residents but rarely do. Like many
states, Texas and Oregon take licenses only during drunken-driving
arrests. Few take it as a common first option, like Illinois.

"The process is outdated," said Logan County Circuit Clerk Carla
Bender. "The law and the Supreme Court rule need to catch up to
technology."

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them? I haven't
really thought about this issue since obviously I am such an
luck^h^h^h^h excellent driver and it's been so long since I've been
caug^h^h^h^h subject to a moving violation.
Anyway, the State of Illinois is now reconsidering this practice, as I
http://tinyurl.com/3c8w4s
or
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/transportation/chi-license07...
The practice of taking driver's licenses was established in Chicago in
the 1950s and later expanded statewide under the presumption that
holding a license hostage makes accused lawbreakers more likely to pay
their fines or come to court.

That's why I joined the Motor Club -- my membership card was also a
bond card.

Post by Nicko
Protocols in other states vary widely. In Michigan, officers take
licenses of out-of-state drivers only. In Mississippi, police can take
driver's licenses of in-state residents but rarely do. Like many
states, Texas and Oregon take licenses only during drunken-driving
arrests. Few take it as a common first option, like Illinois.

On a ski trip to Colorado, a co-driver got caught speeding back in the
day. Because he wasn't going to drive back to contest the ticket, the
CSP made him drive to a store, cash some travelers checks, put the
money and the citation in an envelope, and mail it, all under their
watchful gaze.

[Cydrome Leader]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them? I haven't
really thought about this issue since obviously I am such an
luck^h^h^h^h excellent driver and it's been so long since I've been
caug^h^h^h^h subject to a moving violation.
Anyway, the State of Illinois is now reconsidering this practice, as I
http://tinyurl.com/3c8w4s
or
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/transportation/chi-license07...
The practice of taking driver's licenses was established in Chicago in
the 1950s and later expanded statewide under the presumption that
holding a license hostage makes accused lawbreakers more likely to pay
their fines or come to court.

That's why I joined the Motor Club -- my membership card was also a
bond card.

Post by Nicko
Protocols in other states vary widely. In Michigan, officers take
licenses of out-of-state drivers only. In Mississippi, police can take
driver's licenses of in-state residents but rarely do. Like many
states, Texas and Oregon take licenses only during drunken-driving
arrests. Few take it as a common first option, like Illinois.

On a ski trip to Colorado, a co-driver got caught speeding back in the
day. Because he wasn't going to drive back to contest the ticket, the
CSP made him drive to a store, cash some travelers checks, put the
money and the citation in an envelope, and mail it, all under their
watchful gaze.

what could they have done if he refused?

[clifto]

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Nicko
The practice of taking driver's licenses was established in Chicago in
the 1950s and later expanded statewide under the presumption that
holding a license hostage makes accused lawbreakers more likely to pay
their fines or come to court.

That's why I joined the Motor Club -- my membership card was also a
bond card.

Yeah, and a cash bond is also an alternative to surrendering the license.

[Scott in SoCal]

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:17:00 -0700 (PDT), Nicko

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.

Ancient Chinese Secret: if you pretend your license was "lost" and you
get a duplicate from the SoS, VOILA! No more staple holes! :)

Post by Nicko
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

They could also tell you weren't a member of AAA. :)

[Brent P]

Post by Scott in SoCal
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:17:00 -0700 (PDT), Nicko

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.

Ancient Chinese Secret: if you pretend your license was "lost" and you
get a duplicate from the SoS, VOILA! No more staple holes! :)

It was easy enough to iron out staple holes so they just looked like
bubbles in the plastic.

Post by Scott in SoCal

Post by Nicko
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

They could also tell you weren't a member of AAA. :)

They staple bond cards too. I learned to iron out the staple holes with
the `first ticket I got. cop felt around the edges and goes... 'first
ticket?' The feel is more important that the appearance.

[Scott in SoCal]

Post by Brent P

Post by Scott in SoCal

Post by Nicko
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

They could also tell you weren't a member of AAA. :)

They staple bond cards too.

Sure, but if you give your AA card i lieu of bond your license remains
pristine.

Post by Brent P
I learned to iron out the staple holes with
the `first ticket I got. cop felt around the edges and goes... 'first
ticket?' The feel is more important that the appearance.

Like your entire driving record, including all those "Court
Supervision" dismissals, isn't available on the MDT in the squad
car...

[Brent P]

Post by Scott in SoCal

Post by Brent P

Post by Scott in SoCal

Post by Nicko
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

They could also tell you weren't a member of AAA. :)

They staple bond cards too.

Sure, but if you give your AA card i lieu of bond your license remains
pristine.

Post by Brent P
I learned to iron out the staple holes with
the `first ticket I got. cop felt around the edges and goes... 'first
ticket?' The feel is more important that the appearance.

Like your entire driving record, including all those "Court
Supervision" dismissals, isn't available on the MDT in the squad
car...

The cop had not gone back to the cruiser yet. I only know what he did.
But you've already made it clear that keeping staple holes out of the
license, to keep that cop brail off it has value in your opinion.

[Scott in SoCal]

Post by Brent P

Post by Scott in SoCal

Post by Brent P

Post by Scott in SoCal

Post by Nicko
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

They could also tell you weren't a member of AAA. :)

They staple bond cards too.

Sure, but if you give your AA card i lieu of bond your license remains
pristine.

Post by Brent P
I learned to iron out the staple holes with
the `first ticket I got. cop felt around the edges and goes... 'first
ticket?' The feel is more important that the appearance.

Like your entire driving record, including all those "Court
Supervision" dismissals, isn't available on the MDT in the squad
car...

The cop had not gone back to the cruiser yet. I only know what he did.
But you've already made it clear that keeping staple holes out of the
license, to keep that cop brail off it has value in your opinion.

Actually, I couldn't care less about the staple holes. What has value
to me is not having to surrender your driver's license in lieu of
bond. It sucks when a cop takes your only form of photo ID and then
store clerks hassle you when you try to write a check or use a credit
card. That alone is worth the AAA membership dues.

[Kristian M Zoerhoff]

Post by Scott in SoCal
Actually, I couldn't care less about the staple holes. What has value
to me is not having to surrender your driver's license in lieu of
bond. It sucks when a cop takes your only form of photo ID and then
store clerks hassle you when you try to write a check or use a credit
card. That alone is worth the AAA membership dues.

My state ID and FOID cards seem to serve those purposes pretty well, when
I've tried them (I've never actually had to surrender my license, but it's
nice to know I'll at least have photo in the rare event it ever occurs).

This is not to disparage motor club membership or bond cards; I'd much
rather present one of those then hand over the DL.

[Scott in SoCal]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:58:04 +0000 (UTC), Kristian M Zoerhoff

Post by Kristian M Zoerhoff

Post by Scott in SoCal
Actually, I couldn't care less about the staple holes. What has value
to me is not having to surrender your driver's license in lieu of
bond. It sucks when a cop takes your only form of photo ID and then
store clerks hassle you when you try to write a check or use a credit
card. That alone is worth the AAA membership dues.

My state ID and FOID cards seem to serve those purposes pretty well

1) Relatively few people own guns.
2) Even fewer people bother to get a state ID when they already have a
driver's license.
3) Ever try to show your passport when a store clerk asks for a "photo
ID?" Try it sometime - it's an interesting experience. :)

[Geoff Gass]

Post by Scott in SoCal
3) Ever try to show your passport when a store clerk asks for a "photo
ID?" Try it sometime - it's an interesting experience. :)

Yes. Clerk (and bar bouncers) all said "how fast were you going?"

[Brent P]

Post by Nicko
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them?

The new license format isn't staple friendly. As I understand it they put
them in a little baggy, oddly enough I think it may be the same sort of
baggy the chicago city council wants to ban :). The cop that ticketed me
still put a staple through my auto club/bond card though.

The part of the article that caught my eye:

"but the system also could allow drivers to pay for tickets or bail with
a credit card during a traffic stop."

Tells you all you need to know about what the cop's purpose out there is.

This I hope is just mainstream media ignorance:
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."

Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

[Ron T.]

Post by Brent P
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

You hit a key phrase there, Brent.

"Weren't supposed to"

Bond amounts on traffic offenses, and the options of posting it are set by
statute.

Basically, you *will* post bond (allegedly).

On a minor traffic offense, in Illinois, you may post your license, a valid
bond card that is on a list issued by the state, or an individual bond, an
"I" bond, which you are required to sign anacknowledgement of, for $100 or
whatever.

Now, in the old days, they always stapled the license, as a signal to future
officers, and people knew this.

Back about 5 or so years before I retired, I was at an I.A.C.P. convention,
taking full advantage of their hospitality room, with a room full of
well-lubed chiefs of police and other self-important types, when this
subject came up.

The comments made me chuckle.......

"We got too many complaints, so I tell my officers to paper clip the
licenses"

"I tell *my* officers just to have them sign the ticket, not to take the
license, it makes the violater feel better".

Feel better?

I pointed out that the "promise to comply" section was for drivers of
reciprocity states and that if the license or cash is present, it is to be
posted.

Shit....you'd think I pissed in they're 7-7's.

"You don't understand, Ron......"

This is indicative of the all too common disregard of statutory parameters,
which is why everbody's trying to get *more* gun laws.

We've got laws governing every single minute faction of gun ownership,
posession, and use, but nobody enforces them.

So.....let's make *more* laws that we're not going to enforce.

[Scott in SoCal]

Post by Brent P

Post by Nicko
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them?

The new license format isn't staple friendly. As I understand it they put
them in a little baggy, oddly enough I think it may be the same sort of
baggy the chicago city council wants to ban :).

LOL!!

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

This discussion is about a procedure in lieu of bond. A bond is a surety
that the cited driver will appear in court so authorities don't have to
take him into custody and hold him in pre-trial detention. That is very
much under control of court rules under very general legislation.

The state Supreme Court makes rules that must be followed in all
circuits, which in turn make rules for specific forms to be used. If a
municipality is in more than one county, the cop must carry a citation
pad from both county courts and carefully note which county the
violation has occurred in. Must be fun being a cop in Barrington Hills,
which is in four counties.

[Brent P]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

Show me the law where the courts approve changes to the laws prior to
the legislature making the changes. Show me Adam. You can't because it
doesn't exist.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
This discussion is about a procedure in lieu of bond. A bond is a surety
that the cited driver will appear in court so authorities don't have to
take him into custody and hold him in pre-trial detention. That is very
much under control of court rules under very general legislation.

No shit sherlock. The legislature however can CHANGE those laws without
prior approval from the courts.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
The state Supreme Court makes rules that must be followed in all
circuits, which in turn make rules for specific forms to be used. If a
municipality is in more than one county, the cop must carry a citation
pad from both county courts and carefully note which county the
violation has occurred in. Must be fun being a cop in Barrington Hills,
which is in four counties.

Your ignorance of basic english is astounding. You have presented that
the courts set BAIL, not that they give approval to the legislature to
change laws.

The article stated the court would have to APPROVE CHANGES TO THE LAW.
The legislature can change the law WITHOUT THE APPROVAL of the courts.
The courts can complain about the changes *AFTER* the fact *IF* they are
*NOT* constitutional.

Yes, I knew what the author of the article likely *MEANT* to say. I was
pointing out that's *NOT* what he wrote and hoped it was just mainstream
media ignorance.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

Show me the law where the courts approve changes to the laws prior to
the legislature making the changes. Show me Adam. You can't because it
doesn't exist.

Bonding is a court procedure. The courts have extremely broad latitude
to set up the rules for bonds.

Put on your reading glasses. Put another quarter into the slot on your
head and wind the knob to buy a few minutes of comprehension.

Uh, Brent, "the law" is whatever the fuck a judge says it is. In court,
it's a combination of the law in the constitution at various levels,
state and federal legislation, court rules of procedure, and (where
administrative law applies) regulations.

The public acts of the general assembly are LEGISLATION, a subset of LAW.
Learn something about civics.

[Brent P]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

Show me the law where the courts approve changes to the laws prior to
the legislature making the changes. Show me Adam. You can't because it
doesn't exist.

Bonding is a court procedure. The courts have extremely broad latitude
to set up the rules for bonds.

No shit sherlock.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Put on your reading glasses. Put another quarter into the slot on your
head and wind the knob to buy a few minutes of comprehension.

I know what the author meant to say dumbass, but he didn't write that.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Uh, Brent, "the law" is whatever the fuck a judge says it is. In court,
it's a combination of the law in the constitution at various levels,
state and federal legislation, court rules of procedure, and (where
administrative law applies) regulations.

I realize that we are effectively in the 12th century where the judges
are once again doomsmen who say the law is whatever they say it is and
us common folk aren't allowed to know it. You're a little late to coming
around to this fact, but at least unlike others you have.

Post by Adam H. Kerman
The public acts of the general assembly are LEGISLATION, a subset of LAW.
Learn something about civics.

So Adam, show me where in the process the courts have to approve the
laws before the governor's signature? Oh that's right you can't because
it doesn't work the way the article's author laid it out. Now STFU.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

Show me the law where the courts approve changes to the laws prior to
the legislature making the changes. Show me Adam. You can't because it
doesn't exist.

Bonding is a court procedure. The courts have extremely broad latitude
to set up the rules for bonds.

No shit sherlock.

I wonder if you ever heard of the concept of separation of powers.

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Put on your reading glasses. Put another quarter into the slot on your
head and wind the knob to buy a few minutes of comprehension.

I know what the author meant to say dumbass, but he didn't write that.

Given that he was making a reference to bail procedures, he's correct. I
even found reference to "uniform bail schedule adopted pursuant to
Supreme Court Rule of Order".

(625 ILCS 5/6.306.3) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 6.306.3)
Sec. 6.306.3. License as bail.
(a) Except as provided in Section 6.306.4 of this Code, any
person arrested and charged with violation of Section 3.701,
3.707, or 3.710, or of any violation of Chapters 11 or 12 of
this Code, except the provisions of Sections 3.708, 11.401,
11.501, 11.503, 11.504, or 11.506 of this Code shall have
the option of depositing his valid driver's license issued
under this Code with the officer demanding bail in lieu of
any other security for his appearance in court in answer to
any such charge.
(b) However, a uniform bail schedule and regulations
adopted pursuant to Supreme Court Rule or Order may require
that a driver's license issued under this Code must be
deposited, in addition to appropriate cash deposit, where
persons arrested and charged with violating Sections 3.708,
11.401, 11.501, 11.503, 11.504, or 11.506 of this Code elect
to take advantage of the uniform schedule establishing the
amount of bail in such cases.

Do you understand yet, Brent? Such a change in legislation to allow a
signature in lieu of driver's license as bail requires Supreme Court
adoption into the uniform bail schedule, otherwise the circuit courts
won't follow it, and it doesn't happen until the Supreme Court determines
that the law is constitutional. This is a matter of due process.

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Uh, Brent, "the law" is whatever the fuck a judge says it is. In court,
it's a combination of the law in the constitution at various levels,
state and federal legislation, court rules of procedure, and (where
administrative law applies) regulations.

I realize that we are effectively in the 12th century where the judges
are once again doomsmen who say the law is whatever they say it is and
us common folk aren't allowed to know it. You're a little late to coming
around to this fact, but at least unlike others you have.

It's older than that, douchebag. Judges act as King Solomon.

[clifto]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
It's older than that, douchebag. Judges act as King Solomon.

All too many judges act as King Doofus the Asshole.

[Brent P]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

Show me the law where the courts approve changes to the laws prior to
the legislature making the changes. Show me Adam. You can't because it
doesn't exist.

Bonding is a court procedure. The courts have extremely broad latitude
to set up the rules for bonds.

No shit sherlock.

I wonder if you ever heard of the concept of separation of powers.

Dumbshit, that's what the statement you took offense to is about.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Put on your reading glasses. Put another quarter into the slot on your
head and wind the knob to buy a few minutes of comprehension.

I know what the author meant to say dumbass, but he didn't write that.

Given that he was making a reference to bail procedures, he's correct. I
even found reference to "uniform bail schedule adopted pursuant to
Supreme Court Rule of Order".

Again dumbshit, I know what he *MEANT* to say, but he didn't say it that
way. Dammit what the fuck is your malfunction?

Post by Adam H. Kerman
(625 ILCS 5/6.306.3) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 6.306.3)
Sec. 6.306.3. License as bail.
(a) Except as provided in Section 6.306.4 of this Code, any
person arrested and charged with violation of Section 3.701,
3.707, or 3.710, or of any violation of Chapters 11 or 12 of
this Code, except the provisions of Sections 3.708, 11.401,
11.501, 11.503, 11.504, or 11.506 of this Code shall have
the option of depositing his valid driver's license issued
under this Code with the officer demanding bail in lieu of
any other security for his appearance in court in answer to
any such charge.
(b) However, a uniform bail schedule and regulations
adopted pursuant to Supreme Court Rule or Order may require
that a driver's license issued under this Code must be
deposited, in addition to appropriate cash deposit, where
persons arrested and charged with violating Sections 3.708,
11.401, 11.501, 11.503, 11.504, or 11.506 of this Code elect
to take advantage of the uniform schedule establishing the
amount of bail in such cases.
Do you understand yet, Brent? Such a change in legislation to allow a
signature in lieu of driver's license as bail requires Supreme Court
adoption into the uniform bail schedule, otherwise the circuit courts
won't follow it, and it doesn't happen until the Supreme Court determines
that the law is constitutional. This is a matter of due process.

Dumbshit, the legislature can change that law. That would be the law the
legislature would change, the bail law! The court doesn't get to
approve if the legislature can pass it, they just have to live with it
or find it unconstitutional if passed and signed by blago. Duh.

Nobody is arguing that the courts can't set bail requirements under
present law within the limits of present law. But law can be changed
without the court's prior approval. Duh.

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
Uh, Brent, "the law" is whatever the fuck a judge says it is. In court,
it's a combination of the law in the constitution at various levels,
state and federal legislation, court rules of procedure, and (where
administrative law applies) regulations.

I realize that we are effectively in the 12th century where the judges
are once again doomsmen who say the law is whatever they say it is and
us common folk aren't allowed to know it. You're a little late to coming
around to this fact, but at least unlike others you have.

It's older than that, douchebag. Judges act as King Solomon.

Fucktard, I wasn't stating when it started, but when it ENDED, or at
least the begining of the end. It ended with the magna carta.

I don't know if you're just a dumbshit or you just want to pick fights
about the smallest things you can find in chi.general. I think it's a
combination of the two.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P
"Wholesale changes to the law cannot be made without the approval of the
state Supreme Court."
Last I heard courts weren't supposed to legislate.

Your ignorance of the law is astounding.

Show me the law where the courts approve changes to the laws prior to
the legislature making the changes. Show me Adam. You can't because it
doesn't exist.

Bonding is a court procedure. The courts have extremely broad latitude
to set up the rules for bonds.

No shit sherlock.

I wonder if you ever heard of the concept of separation of powers.

Dumbshit, that's what the statement you took offense to is about.

In honor of Be NICE in chi.general day, I haven't taken offense to any
of your idiocy. Ask me again tomorrow.

[Brent P]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
In honor of Be NICE in chi.general day, I haven't taken offense to any
of your idiocy. Ask me again tomorrow.

You opened with an insult in your first reply to me on this, first thing
you did it.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
In honor of Be NICE in chi.general day, I haven't taken offense to any
of your idiocy. Ask me again tomorrow.

You opened with an insult in your first reply to me on this, first thing
you did it.

You're the one who doesn't know the difference between court procedure
and legislation. I take that back: The idiocy in question was insulting.

[Brent P]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
In honor of Be NICE in chi.general day, I haven't taken offense to any
of your idiocy. Ask me again tomorrow.

You opened with an insult in your first reply to me on this, first thing
you did it.

You're the one who doesn't know the difference between court procedure
and legislation. I take that back: The idiocy in question was insulting.

As I told you before dumbass, I know the difference. The author of the
article didn't write it that way. He wrote that the courts have to
approve changes in the law before they go into effect. Not changes in
the procedure, changes in the law before they go into effect. Scott is
100% spot on with his assement of your reading comprehension.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Brent P

Post by Adam H. Kerman
In honor of Be NICE in chi.general day, I haven't taken offense to any
of your idiocy. Ask me again tomorrow.

You opened with an insult in your first reply to me on this, first thing
you did it.

You're the one who doesn't know the difference between court procedure
and legislation. I take that back: The idiocy in question was insulting.

As I told you before dumbass, I know the difference.

Oh, well. That settles it then. You told me what you know, so that's a fact.

[Eric]

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them? I haven't
really thought about this issue since obviously I am such an
luck^h^h^h^h excellent driver and it's been so long since I've been
caug^h^h^h^h subject to a moving violation.
Anyway, the State of Illinois is now reconsidering this practice, as I

The practice of stapling through the license is gone, at least in Cook
County. I got my first ticket in 20 years last year, and when I got my
license back it was in a special "license sized" plastic bag that gets
stapled to the documentation.

I'm guessing there was some lawsuit regarding the staple holes, because all
the cops I knew checked for holes if you were pulled over for a borderline
infraction and ran your license if you had holes, and you usually got the
ticket (unless you were a hawt babe like Brabs).

[barbie gee]

Post by Eric

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them? I haven't
really thought about this issue since obviously I am such an
luck^h^h^h^h excellent driver and it's been so long since I've been
caug^h^h^h^h subject to a moving violation.
Anyway, the State of Illinois is now reconsidering this practice, as I

The practice of stapling through the license is gone, at least in Cook
County. I got my first ticket in 20 years last year, and when I got my
license back it was in a special "license sized" plastic bag that gets
stapled to the documentation.
I'm guessing there was some lawsuit regarding the staple holes, because all
the cops I knew checked for holes if you were pulled over for a borderline
infraction and ran your license if you had holes, and you usually got the
ticket (unless you were a hawt babe like Brabs).

heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

[Ron T.]

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

Close 2nd.

I got one ticket in my entire life.

1971, I was in the Navy, but not for much longer.

Got off duty, hit the Officers club with a buddy, started getting toasted.

Decided we'd drive into San francisco.

Hit near 100 on the bridge going in, we're laughing about the cop. He walks
up, wants to see my license.

I pull my collar up, displaying my puny JG bar, and I ask him, "Don't you
see that bar?"

Yes, he says.

I said, "Then why didn't I see a SALUTE???".

That was a mistake.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Ron T.

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

Close 2nd.
I got one ticket in my entire life.
1971, I was in the Navy, but not for much longer.
Got off duty, hit the Officers club with a buddy, started getting toasted.
Decided we'd drive into San francisco.
Hit near 100 on the bridge going in, we're laughing about the cop. He walks
up, wants to see my license.
I pull my collar up, displaying my puny JG bar, and I ask him, "Don't you
see that bar?"
Yes, he says.
I said, "Then why didn't I see a SALUTE???".
That was a mistake.

You're lucky the cop didn't toss you into the bay.

[Ron T.]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by Ron T.

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

Close 2nd.
I got one ticket in my entire life.
1971, I was in the Navy, but not for much longer.
Got off duty, hit the Officers club with a buddy, started getting toasted.
Decided we'd drive into San francisco.
Hit near 100 on the bridge going in, we're laughing about the cop. He walks
up, wants to see my license.
I pull my collar up, displaying my puny JG bar, and I ask him, "Don't you
see that bar?"
Yes, he says.
I said, "Then why didn't I see a SALUTE???".
That was a mistake.

You're lucky the cop didn't toss you into the bay.

OH.........!!

I would say that's an understatement.

I'm lucky he didn't beat my ass raw and *then* throw me in the bay.

A young, punk-ass squid, implying to this old, worn, seen-it-all street cop
that he should salute me.

I remember the first part of his tirade about calling the C.O., ass is
grass, something like that. Then the screaming in my ear blissfully rendered
me semi-deaf and I simply sat in the car, my bony fingers sinking into the
wooden steering wheel, staring straight ahead, until he had eye-fucked me to
the point that he felt his point was made, and left to write the ticket.

I then drove into San Fran @ 15 mph.

I'll bet he was a marine.

Dontcha think?

[Scott in SoCal]

Post by Ron T.

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

Close 2nd.
I got one ticket in my entire life.
1971, I was in the Navy, but not for much longer.
Got off duty, hit the Officers club with a buddy, started getting toasted.
Decided we'd drive into San francisco.
Hit near 100 on the bridge going in, we're laughing about the cop. He walks
up, wants to see my license.
I pull my collar up, displaying my puny JG bar, and I ask him, "Don't you
see that bar?"
Yes, he says.
I said, "Then why didn't I see a SALUTE???".
That was a mistake.

Sounds like a Pete story.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

You flirted your way out of two traffic stops?

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

You flirted your way out of two traffic stops?

That was back when she sported substantial cleavage.

[barbie gee]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

You flirted your way out of two traffic stops?

No. One time I got stopped, I explained why I did what I did, and the cop
was reasonable enough to warn me to be more careful. Another time, I
think I got pulled over because it was 3AM and I was in a neighborhood
where seeing a single white woman driving might be considered odd. I had
given a friend a lift home and was on my way home myself. I must have
passed the test, after telling the cop where I worked, what I did, how
long I had lived in the hood, and so on.

Flirting is not my style.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by barbie gee

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

You flirted your way out of two traffic stops?

No. One time I got stopped, I explained why I did what I did, and the cop
was reasonable enough to warn me to be more careful. Another time, I
think I got pulled over because it was 3AM and I was in a neighborhood
where seeing a single white woman driving might be considered odd. I had
given a friend a lift home and was on my way home myself. I must have
passed the test, after telling the cop where I worked, what I did, how
long I had lived in the hood, and so on.
Flirting is not my style.

Hah! You were stopped for "driving while white". That happened to me
once, at night. I'd borrowed a friend's car after visiting him in the
evening and took a roundabout way home. An unmarked squad car pulled me
over and detained me while checking out my license and the car's
registration. The cops shined a flashlight into the windows in the back
and hatchback. They couldn't give me a reasonable explanation for
pulling me over, just someone in a brown car had done something, a
description so vague it could have fit any car.

Maybe they thought they could catch me after having purchased drugs. I
think I was in Humboldt Park neighborhood.

(I still think smr was guilty since he refuses to finish the story.)

[smr]

Post by Adam H. Kerman
(I still think smr was guilty since he refuses to finish the story.)

Convictions are a matter of public record. You need to know that badly,
have at 'em.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by smr

Post by Adam H. Kerman
(I still think smr was guilty since he refuses to finish the story.)

Convictions are a matter of public record. You need to know that badly,
have at 'em.

I didn't mean found guilty, I mean that you had committed whatever
hooliganism the cop assumed you had.

[Nicko]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by barbie gee

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

You flirted your way out of two traffic stops?

No. One time I got stopped, I explained why I did what I did, and the cop
was reasonable enough to warn me to be more careful. Another time, I
think I got pulled over because it was 3AM and I was in a neighborhood
where seeing a single white woman driving might be considered odd. I had
given a friend a lift home and was on my way home myself. I must have
passed the test, after telling the cop where I worked, what I did, how
long I had lived in the hood, and so on.
Flirting is not my style.

Hah! You were stopped for "driving while white". That happened to me
once, at night. I'd borrowed a friend's car after visiting him in the
evening and took a roundabout way home. An unmarked squad car pulled me
over and detained me while checking out my license and the car's
registration. The cops shined a flashlight into the windows in the back
and hatchback. They couldn't give me a reasonable explanation for
pulling me over, just someone in a brown car had done something, a
description so vague it could have fit any car.
Maybe they thought they could catch me after having purchased drugs. I
think I was in Humboldt Park neighborhood.
(I still think smr was guilty since he refuses to finish the story.)

I was coming out of the Artful Dodger (now gone, Paulina/Wabansia)
with two girlfriends, late one night back in 1990 or so. Paulina is
one of those two-way streets so narrow that people parked facing
either direction, regardless of whether they were facing north or
south. I was parked facing north on the west side of the Paulina.

As the three of us were getting into the car, a squad pulled up. The
window comes down.

"Any reason you're parked facing the wrong way here?"

What could I possibly say? I settled for:

"Honestly, officer, I have absolutely no excuse."

The window went up, and they drove away, just like that.

I dunno whether he wanted me to try to bullshit him, or he just wanted
to check out my girlfriends, but it was pretty funny.

--
YOP...

[Scott in SoCal]

Post by Adam H. Kerman

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

You flirted your way out of two traffic stops?

My wife cried her way out of a ticket once. She got pulled over for an
illegal U-turn, and felt so genuinely bad she started crying. The
officer told her to GTFOH. :)

[Scott in SoCal]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:28:33 -0500, barbie gee

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

Lessee... I got my first speeding ticket when I was 17. The cop
accused me of drag racing, but I managed to talk my way out of that by
pointing out to the officer that "This is a 4-cylinder Chevy Vega. It
burns a quart of oil per tank of gas. Ain't no way in hell I'm going
to win any drag races with this thing!" He saw the logic in that and
wrote me up for ~40 in a 30.

I got pulled over two other times, but only got warnings (one written,
one verbal). So unless I get another MV in the next 3 years, I got you
beat. :)

BTW, do you have a sister named Lisa?

[barbie gee]

Post by Scott in SoCal
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:28:33 -0500, barbie gee

Post by barbie gee
heh.
I think in my whole driving career I've been pulled over like 4 times, and
only 2 resulted in tickets.
Two MVs in 30 years? not bad.

Lessee... I got my first speeding ticket when I was 17. The cop
accused me of drag racing, but I managed to talk my way out of that by
pointing out to the officer that "This is a 4-cylinder Chevy Vega. It
burns a quart of oil per tank of gas. Ain't no way in hell I'm going
to win any drag races with this thing!" He saw the logic in that and
wrote me up for ~40 in a 30.
I got pulled over two other times, but only got warnings (one written,
one verbal). So unless I get another MV in the next 3 years, I got you
beat. :)
BTW, do you have a sister named Lisa?

no.

[Scott in SoCal]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:22:11 -0500, barbie gee

Post by Scott in SoCal
BTW, do you have a sister named Lisa?

no.

Pity. Lisa G. is pretty hot.

http://www.sirius.com/lisag

[Brent P]

Post by Eric

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.
It's been maybe twenty years since I've had a traffic ticket, so I was
unaware that it's still standard practice to confiscate drivers
licenses for traffic tickets. Do they still staple them? I haven't
really thought about this issue since obviously I am such an
luck^h^h^h^h excellent driver and it's been so long since I've been
caug^h^h^h^h subject to a moving violation.
Anyway, the State of Illinois is now reconsidering this practice, as I

The practice of stapling through the license is gone, at least in Cook
County. I got my first ticket in 20 years last year, and when I got my
license back it was in a special "license sized" plastic bag that gets
stapled to the documentation.
I'm guessing there was some lawsuit regarding the staple holes, because all
the cops I knew checked for holes if you were pulled over for a borderline
infraction and ran your license if you had holes, and you usually got the
ticket (unless you were a hawt babe like Brabs).

What I heard was that the staples were causing damage to the licenses or
some such. cracking them? or maybe staples wouldn't go through. It was
an issue with the actual mechanics of stapling the newer licenses. Never
heard of a lawsuit.

I miss my old format license... get carded by some 22 year old waitress
who never saw that format and she'd look at it as if she had been
presented something from the next star system over.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Brent P
I miss my old format license... get carded by some 22 year old waitress
who never saw that format and she'd look at it as if she had been
presented something from the next star system over.

I kept one of those licenses for a long time, the kind made in the
Polaroid ID badge machines, but a Secretary of State employee advised me
strongly to let them shred it as it was from the "Make impersonation easy!"
days when they insisted on printing one's Social Security Number on the
face of the license.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Post by Nicko
It used to be, when you got a traffic ticket in Chicago, the cop would
not only take your license, but when the license went "into the
system" and you eventually went to court to contest the ticket, it
would be stapled to a copy of the citation.
So, effectively, anyone looking at your license could tell, by
counting the staple holes, a bit about your recent driving history.

Yeah. I can recall traffic stops in which the cop would feel for old
staple holes and demand to know the circumstances of prior traffic stops
which wasn't any of his business and, while I wasn't obliged to tell
him, a cop is still being coercive. Sometimes knowing that there were
prior traffic stops would inspire the cop to get creative and pile on
additional charges.

What motorists didn't realize was that it was never required to post the
license in lieu of bail. I typically insisted on posting bail, something
the cops really hated because it meant it had to be done at the police
station. Once, I recall a cop refusing to let me post bail, telling me
I'd have to post bail at the end of his shift (this was contrary to
procedure and the law), so I got ye olde staple hole anyway.

At some point, they stopped stapling the driver's license directly in
Cook County. Instead, they put the license in an acetate sleave and
stapled the sleave to the bond form.

It never occurred to me to do so, but if I insisted on bail but didn't
have sufficient cash, I might have requested an I-bond (what Cook County
courts call a promise to appear in court with no cash posted); I don't
know what other counties call it. The desk sergeant at the police
station makes that call.

There was a short period a few years ago when cops stopped taking the
license, but circuit court clerks complained about the drop in
compliance with court ordered fines. So the practice was resumed.